Progressive Americans Support Military Recruitment of College and Young Republicans!
Attention Anti-War Leftists:
It's time to reach out to all Americans. On January 30, the College Republicans will sponsor "Finish the Job: Support Our Troops" Rallies in Washington DC and All Over America to support President Bush's January 31 State of the Union address. All of you can support every American's First Amendment rights and make a patriotic impression on our great country. Red States and Blue States together, we're all Americans.
Cindy Sheehan said it best: If you support the war, I think you should join it. I hear recruiting numbers are low. It's the College Republicans' day; don't spoil it with anti-Bush counter-protests against the war itself. Instead, encourage the College Republicans and their supporters, including Protest Warrior, to volunteer for military service: Be A Man! Enlist! Iraq, Afghanistan and other veterans of all ages can help by wearing their uniforms and personally inviting military recruiters to join them.
The Washington DC rally will take place Monday, January 30, at 6:30 p.m., at American Legion Post No. 8, 224 D St., SE (Metro Capitol South). Be there!
Let's do this right.
posted by Karl @ 1/21/2006 09:12:00 AM
73 comments
73 Comments:
Is there a way to check if someone's reason for deferrment is for real?
Sara Farb of the CSU Young Republicans, in response to 'Why don't you ENLIST?' responds:
---
On Jan 21, 2006, at 3:14 AM, sfarb@csurepublicans.com wrote:
Because I'm athsmatic and they won't take me.
---
Now, call me cynical, but most folks know how to SPELL their condition...
Are deferrments public record? I'd like to verify this.
I'd be happy to apologize *IF* her response was honest.
Something tells me it's not.
Today, it's not a "deferment" because we don't have a draft. It's a rejection for military service and the recruiting office would have given her some paperwork on it.
If she's shouting down the other side, however, or is otherwise a hothead or something, you can ask her if her asthma has been cured.
"Because I'm athsmatic and they won't take me."
Amusing - it's apparent that she is lying or making assumptions about the military.
It is quite easy to get in the military and have asthma. Unless you have it really bad, it's easy to both 'lie' initially and then make it through basic.
As for 'lying' on your application - the recruiters TELL you to do it. No recruiter is going to try to get rid of you. I had one in high school who would actually go to police stations to pick up the guys he was after, tell people to lie about drug use, oh and lie himself about the actual contract they were signing.
Sara is a wuss. It's not hard to get in and unless she starts getting constricted airways from a light jog then she's full of it. The air force takes about anyone who can manage a little jog.
Of course, I would prefer it if she joined the marines.
Exactly.
Call her bluff: Ask her if she actually tried to enlist, and prove it.
If the recruiters really rejected her for military service, well, at least she tried. She deserves respect for having stepped forward.
But nobody should make assumptions that they are unqualified without actually contacting a recruiter and telling them the truth about one's individual situation.
If you are willing to serve, let the recruiters decide.
Recruiting sign suspended high above the dorm/classroom walkway at U of Ky:
"College Republicans!
Drop Your Pom Poms
And Suit-Up!"
In fairness to the young lady in question: if you ever had asthma as a child they will not take you. How do I know? I tried to volunteer in 1985 and was rejected for precisely that reason.
Now, whether the lady in question ever actually tried to volunteer, I can't think of a way to verify. Ask her where she volunteered, where she took the physical, maybe.
I think your recruiting idea is brilliant. And the more serious you are about it, the better it will go. Dress nice and act patriotic. Had out literature and take a clipboard with a sign-up sheet with the heading "Please contact me about volunteering for military service." Try to get the CRs to sign up. Take a video camera to videotape their reactions.
If anyone actually volunteers, send their info to a recruiter.
True: I neglected to mention to my recruiter that I had asthma and survived a three year enlistment. I went on sick call during basic training, wheezing and barely able to breathe. The medic who examined me said, "Which is more difficult, breathing out or breathing in?"
"Both", I said.
"Wrong answer! Next!"
I'd love to see a lot more of these bloodthirsty young MBA's back up their talk by putting their lives on the line.
I'll bet the real reason Sara Farb of the Young Republicans can't enlist: it's really, really upsetting when sand gets into your mascara tube. I'm a girl and I know these things.
they have other priorities right now... like a boil on their ass...
J. C. Wilmore,
I had asthma as a kid--took allergy shots for 5 years to control it--and when I went for my physical in 1998, it wasn't an issue. I didn't sign up for other reasons, namely the MOS I wanted was suddenly full and I didn't like the other options, so I walked and I've never regretted it. But asthma didn't keep me out.
Wonder if there's gonna be a College Republican rallin in L.A.
(Us, across the street from it):
What do we want?
YOU! (point)
Where?
IN THE ARMY!
When do we want it?
NOW!
Because I'm athsmatic and they won't take me.
Hell, my brother has epilepsy, and they took him. Apparently, the fact that he hadn't had a gran mal seizure in five years was good enough for them. Of course, he only ever had two in the first 22 years of his life, anyway. So no seizures in five years doesn't mean a damn thing.
Umm... if you HAVE a deferment, there is no reason to be defensive about it. This is the strawiest strawman argument ever. It OBVIOUSLY isn't targeted at those with legitimate excuses. It's targeted at the jingoistic cowards.
Hey, I'm 45 (no prior service) and in good (not perfect) health, but the Army told me I'm too old.
They also said I could best help by encouraging younger Americans to consider volunteering for military service.
Hence Operation Yellow Elephant.
Those who have been turned down for military service are clearly ineligible to serve and must be treated with respect. If they support the war, they still have an obligation to encourage their circles of influence (e.g., their eligible relatives and friends) to consider military service.
One's personal status vis-a-vis military service is relevant to public support for the war and should be disclosed. Once it's disclosed (e.g., Jonah Goldberg), welcome to the Free Exchange of Ideas including Robust, Uninhibited Debate.
I posted comment #3 and wanted to followup:
At this point, mild to moderate asthma is not going to keep you from enlisting. The so called 'physical' is anything but. If you just 'neglect' to mention your asthma on the 'prior conditions' section when you take your physical it won't be noticed until after strenuous exercise. At that point you simply say that it's allergies and you forgot to take your bennadryl.
I had no problem with exercise induced asthma and horrible allergies (I take shot to control it now though). My father, a retired colonel, and really bad allergy asthma and he's missing a ventricle in his heart - that didn't disqualify him.
Of course, he did green to gold and enlisted after Vietnam. They'd take anybody then - kind of like now.
But yes, ask her for the recruiters NAME. If she can't come up with one in person fast then she's full of it. The recruiters want you to know your name - they're like used car dealers selling a somewhat shady product.
Nowadays the army or any other branch of service will take just about anybody. I don't believe this person who says she's asthmatic. Especially now with the Iraq debacle. This person won't "prove" she has asthma because she can't.
Air Force retiree
Considering the state of the Army and that they'll currently take anyone, I'm sure they'll take Sara. She may not be on the frontlines, but she frees up another there to be out there.
Seriously, pathetic answer.
I forgot to mention that my son has asthma and he's in the Marine Corps. Air Force retiree
Just call any army recruiter and say: "I'd like to enlist but I have asthma, can I still sign up"?
Hi -- Army guy here. Got asthma? Come on down! Unless you choke out during Basic or AIT, you're good to go. Had an NCO with asthma in Kuwait in '03; the dust choked her up, she went on sick call, they sent her home -- and then to Korea, to stand up to Kim Jong Il, since Korea in the winter doesn't have dust problems.
So no worries, Sara, we can find a spot for you to help defend President Bush. No, wait, we swear an oath to defend the CONSTITUTION -- guess you wouldn't want to be in OUR army after all.
Instead of "Be a man," how about the slogan: "Put your ass where your mouth is."
Congrats on the link from Atrios. If I was still in DC I would definitely attend the rally. Keep up the good work.
little dick bedwetter republicans actually go fight a war...no way that is ever going to happen.
.
Let's posit for the sake of argument that Sara is both honest and factually correct when she says that the services won't take her.
But there still seems to be an implicit admission on her part that *if* the services would allow her to join, joining would be the right thing to do. I agree entirely with that.
So how about it, Sara? There are without any question many thousands of College Republicans like yourself who do not have any identifiable physical or medical defect which would prevent them from serving in the combat arms.
What do you think of them when they decline to do so? They almost overwhelmingly support Dubya and Dubya's war, and they have done so from the start. Don't you think, Sara, that it's morally inconsistent for them now to stay home and avoid the dangers of the crusade for which they yelled so vocally?
(Especially given the extremely cruel burden which the war is placing on our Guard and Reserve forces, many of whom are losing their homes, jobs and marriages due to the historically unprecedented rate of overseas deployment for such units.)
We're all ears, Sara. You've defended your own circumstance. Defend those of your healthier compatriots, if you would.
--
Childhood asthma, shots for five years. Signed up for the Army National Guard and survived a trip to Fort Benning.
No excuses.
How about actually bringing some military recruiters with you? I'd like to see the little rethuglicans turn them down. Or maybe bring some veterans to hand out this material.
Ever notice how many college republicans are sickly childen?
=my2c
I was rejected by the Army when I tried to join ROTC around 1993. I reported my asthma on my application. It was true then -- they will reject you if you report you are asthmatic.
Why don't we start offering all of them white feathers? I can see it now - crash the parties and hand out feathers. What fun!
Has anyone found an example of one of these College Republican "Finish the Job" rallies taking any place other than in DC?
The "All over America" part of the rally plan seems to be AWOL.
Google and Google News doesn't turn anything up--nor did a cursory search of about a dozen state sites.
The CRNC site offers a rally kit to any taker, but from the looks of it, the rallies will be as private an affair as one of Dick Cheney's energy policy meetings. Nobody's publicizing one outside of the Beltway.
Perhaps OYE patriots might ask for the kits and stage the rallies for the sickly College Republicans--with an emphasis on encouraging the dears to join up.
If anyone here REALLY wanted to have some fun, and didn't mind public speaking, I'd suggest the following...
1: Wherever any "support our troops" rallies occure, make sure the local enlistment center knows it's happening.
2: Call up the organizers of the event, and pass yourself off as a pro-war zealot, one who would serve except for some physical ailment (like say, oh, I don't know, asthma?), but you make it a point to support any rally for the war you find. Tell the organizers how much you hate lefties who are helping Osama & his ilk by crapping on the war, that those people are aiding and abetting the enemy, all the talking points. Ask if you can speak at the rally, at any point, because there is SO much you want to say, especially a great big "Thank You" to the troops. Most of these events are run by pie-eyed kids who have had it too good to be suspicious or jaded, and they'll be so happy to have a confident public speaker parroting the talking points, they probably won't bother checking out your background (such as it may be).
3: The day of the event, play it straight. Don't start bad-mouthing the war. Don't call attention to yourself that would lead anyone to believe you're a leftie. And if you get the chance to speak, do so with a fervor bordering on Bushmania. Get people to whoop it up by asking "Who supports our boys overseas? Who supports the only political party with the guts to do whay must be done? Who supports our President?" And when people are basically creaming themselves with patriotic fervor, THEN drop the bomb, that it's time to stand up for what you believe in, that it's time for all of them to prove that they're not a bunch of wussy liberal girly-men. Tell them where the recruiter is, that he's ready to sign up as many who want to join, that YOU signed up yesterday (so you don't have to actually sign up yourself), and then try to start a march over to the recruiter's table. Chances are, nobody's going to follow you and then you can justifiably harangue them for being a bunch of hypocritical pu$sie$, take the wind out of their sails for the rest of the day, and give any speaker who follows you a weakened, cowed crowd to work with.
It's one of those things we all wish we had the guts to do. If you can, I'd highly recommend it.
I tried to join in the early 90's. I was in good shape, but they would not let me in because I had "bad knees." By "bad knees" they meant I could not get on my knees on a tile floor, pick up my feet, walk five "knee" steps out, turn around and walk five "knee" steps back. I had little body fat and my knee caps were crushing my skin. They had a surgeon look at my knees and xrays of my knees. He said they were fine, but the Army wasn't going to let me in.
Currently I race Ironman and love passing members of any military team. Not getting in turned out to be a good thing.
I was rejected by the Army when I tried to join ROTC around 1993. I reported my asthma on my application. It was true then -- they will reject you if you report you are asthmatic.
Ah. Trust me on this. Comparisons between 1993 and 2006 are the most apples-and-oranges comparison imaginable. Not even apples-and-oranges. Giraffes and desk chairs. Completely different and inapplicable. There was no meatgrinder war in 1993. There is now.
If you have a *pulse* and walk in to an Army or Marine recruiting station today, they are going to bend heaven and earth to get you enlisted and shipped to basic.
Including, unfortunately, recourse to such tactics as lying, falsifying documents, coaching candidates on how to misrepresent conditions which might lead to disqualification, telling candidates which cleansing products to use in order to cloak recent drug use, and other such fun stuff.
But none of this would be necessary if every able-bodied Bush voter aged 42 or younger went straight down to the recruiting station tomorrow. Why, if that happened, there would be more than enough troops.
Do the right thing, right wing. Enlist in the war which you so avidly demanded. Support the troops by relieving them in the field -- they have done more than enough already, and they have suffered tremendously for your, and Bush's, stupidity.
--
Maybe people should email the major news networks' hosts (i.e. Hannity, Combs, O'Leilly, C Matthews, Olbermann, etc) with the Operation Yellow Elephant website and text of the call to "support" the College Republicans on Jan. 30. Couldn't hurt, and might get some airtime and discussion going?
cs-
Thank you. That's a good idea; if you can, please feel free to take the initiative. That goes for everyone reading this blog.
The best way to get a permanent link is to click on the "6:12 a.m." Then click at the top and paste it into your e-mail message.
Thanks again.
Hi Karl,
I'd actually already emailed to several Fox, MSNBC anchors prior to posting - so hopefully others will also. Supporting the "supporters" who won't enlist is a great idea, I think. I've read that less than 1% of Amerians are personally invested in this war, as compared to 12% (I think it was?) in WWII. CS
to make it easier:
Hannity@foxnews.com
Colmes@foxnews.com
Special@foxnews.com
Oreilly@foxnews.com
hardball@msnbc.com
abramsreport@msnbc.com
countdown@msnbc.com
joe@msnbc.com
tucker@msnbc.com
for CNN: http://www.cnn.com/feedback/
"Because I'm athsmatic and they won't take me."
My best friend is a Major in the Army and has asthma.
cs-
Thanks. I'll send them out today.
Uh, guys--
Tell me: Why aren't military recruiters showing up at College Republican meetings on their own anyway? I mean, if they really need warm bodies to fill those uniforms, looks like they'd seek out the gung-ho form the git-go. You suppose the recruiters would acknowledge on the record that Young Republicans are either misfits, too wussy, or too well-connected to serve in?
anonymous-
We are inviting military recruiters to attend these events.
This is something that everyone can do in their own community.
Go to www.usarec.army.mil and click on brigades and battalions.
That will help you to identify the recruiting company that covers your area. It's best to keep your contacts at the company level.
Just remember to present these as military recruiting leads.
And if they're not interested, politely ask why and whether they would have a problem if you should go to their higher headquarters (battalion). They shouldn't.
If there's an order or something not to 'bother' the College and Young Republicans, we'd certainly like to know about it.
Thank you for your interest.
she is a shit eating lesbain
I Really agree that we need to flood campuses with recruiters to "suggest" to the Young Chickenhawks that they ought to sign up if they like muder and mayhem so much.
I've always wondered why it is that there's no ROTC on these Ivy League campuses. I think its because these well-connected politicians wouldn't want their kids recruited.
We should have a nation-wide campaign to put a recruiter on every campus along with a "Recruiter's Bill of Rights" so that the children of the privleged can't kick them back off.
You want war? Then share the burdern of fighting it, I say.
The wars have always been fought by those who had to go to war. If daddy couldn't buy a higher draft #, or in modern times, if you can't find a job to stay alive-you go.
There is no coincidence in that NAFTA-Global Corporate Trade and the Iraq wars have occurred in basically same time frame.
But I always wondered why the cute Bush girls don't go down and get fitted for some hiking boots....
---
On Jan 21, 2006, at 3:14 AM, sfarb@csurepublicans.com wrote:
Because I'm athsmatic and they won't take me.
---
My high school soccer coach had asthma and was a green beret in Vietnam
I just got done reading the stuff on the upper left side of the page about the plans for OYE, and I really think I've got something to add with what I posted before.
I think if we really want to level the playing field of who has to sacrifice their sons and daughters for these politicians, we need to make it so these rich white college kids can't avoid the opportunity to serve.
If we're at all sincere about this, we should make it a priority to demand that military recruiters be placed on every campus, public and private. We should make it so it's required (I 'm not sure how, srry ;p) so that when the rich republican S.O.B.'s try to get their parents to complain to their senators on the golf course, they can't do anything.
I went to the RNC protests in NY in '04 and got some business cards from a recruiter while I was there.
If anyone is going to confront these Yellow Elephants, it would be a good idea to give them a business card or perhaps even call the recruiter while you're debating one of the Yellow Elephants. Of course it would be best if the military had recruiters at the ready.
"I think if we really want to level the playing field of who has to sacrifice their sons and daughters for these politicians, we need to make it so these rich white college kids can't avoid the opportunity to serve."
JeanJeanie said... 4:59 PM
A truly level playing field [well, a MORE level playing field - wealth and power and the Texas Air Nat'l Guard aside] would involve reinstating the draft.
In Jan/2003, Reps. Rangel and Conyers introduced such legislation:
"If indeed the president believes war is necessary in terms of our national welfare, then he has to believe that sacrifices need to be made, and those sacrifices need to be shared," Rangel said. "We have to kick up a notch the sense of patriotism and the sense of obligation."
Conyers said in a statement that "once the conscription process for service in the military becomes universal and mandatory for all those who meet the criteria . . . it removes the long-held stigma that people of color and persons from low-income backgrounds are disproportionately killed and injured while serving as ground troops on the front line."
But many felt they were just "playing politics" and Republicans said the move was "disingenuous." If a national draft were reinstated, however, a wider majority of people would suddenly have a very personal stake in Iraq - or Iran or whatever else this Administration can come up with.
And if a national draft were reinstated, the war in Iraq would probably wind up quicker than you could say "Red States aren't cooperating at the Town Hall Meetings anymore!"
But even though a draft would level up the playing field a bit, and would ensure that sons of red and blue states, rich and poor, and all the various ethnic groups participated in this war to some equal degree - and would probably end this conflict tomorrow because of the undoubtedly negative backlash in public sentiment -there is NO WAY it will ever happen.
So it would seem all we are left with is to try and shame the chicken hawks who would never consider voluntary military service for themselves or for their own children.
What a country.
I don't know. I probably am too green here to say this sort of thing, but I think that's kinda naive. I mean, we've seen it: they've stolen three national elections in a row, and the so-called Democrats are hardly different in their desire to keep the war going. We have to face the hard fact that we don't live in a democracy anymore. This is fascism.
If we reinstated the draft, our boys and girls would still be dying for rich white oligarchs, only completely against their wills. No matter the circumstances, a volunteer army is more just than a draft. If we still have a choice whether or not to kill brown people half-a-world away, we should keep it. I can guarantee that we'd just be fighting to get the draft revoked again a couple of years down the road.
On the other hand, I think if anything is going to influence young oligarchs to reject their insular culture of war for profit and profit for war, it will come when shame confronts them at every turn.
Rich white college kids and their parents have managed to build them a tunnel they can pass through without ever having to confront their privledge in contrast to the hard choices the less privledged have to make: private school --> college --> daddy's business (or loft slumming). College is a place that the well-connected white elites have driven army recruiters from so their kids never have to be bothered with the choice, but it's also the weak link in that tunnel.
Ithink You're right that new Draft legislation will never be allowed to be law. Instead, we can use alumni associations, community pressure and direct action to bring recruiters and ROTC onto campus. Then students with a social concience will be able to better apply shame to these fetal oligarchs and develop better community with the most direct American victims of Bush's endless war -- the troops.
Of course the Young Elephascists won't fight the war themselves--that's what Jose Rodriguez, Cornelius Jones, and Billy Bob McCoy, Jr. are for!
they are all shit eating pussies like alito who faught to stop princtown from having rotc
The first order of business is to go to the local recruiters and get cards.
Army, Marines, Navy, Air Force, Army Guard and Air Guard.
Hand them out to all the people of apparent age (which is now to 42)
When they refuse, give them a white feather (which can be bought lots of places. In LA Huntzinger Farms sells them. They sell turkeys, so the feathers are large).
TK
Someone needs to compile a list of physical problems that won't keep you out of the military. Obviously, asthma isn't a problem, and I know a cross-eyed Marine, an epileptic sailor, and a submariner who got in with serious astigmatism in both eyes, 15 extra pounds of weight, two congenitally deformed feet and an arrest for public intoxication just two weeks before OCS. Anyone else know someone who is significantly jacked up but still manages to serve?
The group you cite called Protest Warriors are the biggest bunch of loser, cowardly chickenhawks ever.
Remember the kids in high school who seemed unnaturally obsessed with reading books about Hitler and reading magazines about knives and guns?
You know... the ones who would shoot birds with their BB guns and had maybe two friends and would wear camo everyday to school? The ones voted most likely to be caught beating up homeless people...
THAT'S whom comprises the membership of Protest Warriors.
My roommate and I both joined the U.S. Navy in 1989, and he had asthma (or however it is spelled). He did 4 years in Japan, me 4 years in Long Beach. We survived. And something tells me the criteria for enlistment was more stringent then than it is now.
Bush Lied,
Soldiers Died!
Yellow Elephants
run and hide!
Well done, Chris!
Would you like a hat tip?
The way to support the troops is to put pressure on congress to stop cutting funds from VA hospitals, or to give financial assistance to returning vetrans who are ending up in homeless shelters, or who loose their house because they couldn't pay their mortgage.
That is the way to support the troops.
Holding a sign, waving a flag and wearing a 'I support the troops' button doesn't help soneone who lost their leg pay their mortgage.
To the idiot young college republicans, I dare you to make me eat my words. If you can, then good. Your 'Real' contributions will actually help someone who needs it.
One more note, I am an Army veteran, not that it matters.
jeanjeanie says "If we're at all sincere about this, we should make it a priority to demand that military recruiters be placed on every campus, public and private. We should make it so it's required (I 'm not sure how, srry ;p) so that when the rich republican S.O.B.'s try to get their parents to complain to their senators on the golf course, they can't do anything."
That's a great idea. We should all be very thankful for the Solomon Amendment. Keep your fingers crossed that the amendment is upheld by the Supreme Court. Who is fighting this bill that allows the government to withhold funding from universities that prohibit military recruiters and ROTC from coming on campus? The Left. During Vietnam who firebombed ROTC building and had ROTC kicked off Ivy League campuses? The Left.
Kicking the ROTC off campus polarizes the military (so does this website). If you think a military full of openly Republican officers and NCOs is a good thing for this country, you are crazy. Think of the big picture and not just Iraq. The military will never entirely be but should try to be a reflection of the country. Imagine a country full of very liberal Americans that are unsupportive of the military protected by an openly Republican military. Then an anti-military President is elected. Then you find yourself living in Turkey where the military interferes in politics.
Educate yourself. Begin with the second half of "Making the Corps." Think about what you are doing.
anonymous and jeanjeanie-
I, for one, support ROTC on every campus. While, say, military officers each have the right to form individual political opinions, I am concerned about the identification of our military officer corps with one political party.
Re ROTC: It's aging '60s liberal hippie professors who principally oppose the return of ROTC to campus, not current students. It may make the profs feel better, but the best thing for America is a military officer corps that is broadly representative of our great country. I fully agree with you.
The same goes for "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." Liberal Northeastern school should be encouraging their graduates to apply to join the military and work to fight "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" from within. Don't cede our military officer corps to graduates of Jerry Falwell's Liberty University by default.
So what about the College Republicans? Does urging the College Republicans to enlist mean that our military officer corps will be even more identified with one party than is the case now?
Answer: It's the College Republicans who WON'T enlist. [While many military officers are Republicans, the opposite is not true: The vast majority of Republicans, including the College Republicans, have no military experience. Just look at the current leadership of our governing party.]
We've got to hold the College Republicans to their responsibilities as the future leaders of our national governing party. And if they pussy out, as seems to be the case, well, that may affect their status as an element of national leadership. Let those chips fall.
They seem to be falling already. We're seeing very little enthusiasn among the College Republicans for organizing these rallies. Perhaps they're sick of such "top-down" direction, given all the other problems out there. In any case, Operation Yellow Elephant has clearly changed the terms of the debate.
Once our national leaders, whoever they are, stop wussing out, then everyone will be interested in military service. And I, personally, urge non-Republicans interested in the military to consider serving as well. 'Just time it to your own individual circumstances; it's a seller's market out there.
Thanks, anonymous, for looking at the big picture. We welcome further comments. You can also send to operationyellowelephant(at)gmail(dot)com.
jarotra-
On this blog, I'm prepared to acknowledge that military recruiters would not accept Sara Farb for enlistment because she exceeds height/weight standards and may not be otherwise qualified for multiple reasons. If the recruiters actually told her this, then she deserves respect for having contacted them.
But anyone ineligible to serve who supports the war still has an obligation to encourage his/her eligible relatives and friends, or circle of influence, to consider military service.
Especially like Paul and Chuck in that same photograph.
While personal biography is relevant if our nation's all-volunteer force is having recruiting problems, personal attacks have no place in this blog. But the burden is on those who claim to be ineligible for military service to explain their situation.
If you sincerely contacted a recruiter, it's nothing to be ashamed of. Quite the contrary: even if you thought they'd turn you down, at least you had the guts to show up.
I feel privleged to be on this board amongst so many veterans and attempted veterans of the Bosnian war.
Regarding disabilities and the military:
My dad was called to report for his draft physical in the days of 'Nam ... for various reasons, they ranked him 4F or whatever the ranking of "we'll call 80 year old widows and toddlers to defend this country before we'll induct you" is.
When he graduated from optometry school, the military was ready to offer pretty nice commissions to him and any of his classmates, 'cause they had skills the military needed. Were my dad's asthma, flat-feet, extreme myopia, etc, gonna be a problem? No -- he was in good enough shape to pass basic training (he was and, in spite of having rather out of control diabetes and in general not taking care of himself, still is in good enough shape to be in special ops), so they would have been happy to have him. Of course my dad was opposed to the war and didn't want to fight in it, but if he supported the war, it would have been pretty lame of him to hide behind a medical excuse when recruiters were coming to him!
I (with severe food allergies, some asthma, somewhat flat feet) was told pretty much the same thing when I was mulling applying to West Point ("your grades, your skills? allergies/asthma or no, you seem healthy enough to go through basic -- get a doctor's note confirming this and we'd be happy to have you").
The point is that, if you have something the military needs, they will take you so long as you are able to do the job (including the training). And right now the military needs just about everyone willing to sign up!
I've always wondered why it is that there's no ROTC on these Ivy League campuses. I think its because these well-connected politicians wouldn't want their kids recruited.
Sorry to tell you -- that's not the reason, although close.
In the 1960s the left was actually wanting the ROTC off campuses -- but not, as commonly thought, because the left hated the military.
What was happening was that, when it looked like a richer's student deferment days might end, he would join the ROTC figuring it's better to be an officer than to be drafted. Essentially the ROTC was a way around the ending of student deferments. The left wanted ROTC off campus that way the chickenhawks of the day would be more likely to fall into the draft which was consuming working stiffs at an alarming rate.
Nowadays many on the left still want ROTC off campus because the military discriminates against gays: if the military stops discriminating against gays, you'll see the so-called "anti-military left" change their position about ROTC on campus 180 degrees in no time whatsoever.
Of course, if the draft is reinstated and ROTC gets used to effectively prolong student deferments while the working stiffs continue to be sent to war ...
*
BTW -- ROTC rejects people for health issues? I have a friend who was in some sort of ROTC program in high school. She has asthma and bipolar and is overweight and there is no way she could survive basic training -- but she was in that ROTC program.
I guess standards are not always consistent.
Real nice, using someone's name without her permission.
Imagine my surprise when an idle Google search turns up my name on a site I’ve never heard of before, where some anonymous user has posted comments I made in reply to a private email. I really don’t care about my words being used, I still stand by them, but I do take issue with my name being used, especially since it was done so without my permission. But I digress.
I am very supportive of the military. My boyfriend is a member of the Army National Guard who was sent to Louisiana to help with the hurricane recovery. Several members of my family have served in various branches, including an uncle who stood guard at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier for a time. I have wanted to be a part of the military for some time. When I was in High School, I dreamed of going to the Naval Academy. I was told by my guidance counselors basically to ‘not bother’ applying because of my asthma and eye sight; I would never be accepted because of the strict standards. I do what I can to support soldiers, particularly by offering moral support because I am unable to physically join them.
Again, I stand by what I said. I am an asthmatic and have been since I was 11. I’m also severely near-sighted. I’ve been told by recruiters and other army personnel I’ve talked to that I would never be accepted for those reasons as well as the standards for height/weight ratio (the tape test) which I do not meet. Sure, I could lie (which could possibly get you sent to jail for fraudulent enlistment, or at least kicked out of the military) but that would be horrendously unsafe to myself and to others. Even if I lied to get in, and somehow did manage to make it through basic and AIT (highly unlikely because I have had attacks or wheezing from much more than a light jog) if I were to be deployed I could jeopardize myself or even worse people in my unit were I to suffer an attack and be unable to perform my duties. And while an unethical recruiter might overlook all these things, I am not willing to have others put at risk because of my failings.
In this country we have an all-volunteer armed force for these very reasons: so that those who are physically or mentally unable to serve are not forced into the military or even those who do not wish to because of family or other concerns. People should not be looked down on or mocked because they stand behind a cause they are not able to fight for by joining the military. Besides, there are more ways to help then strictly by military service such as writing letters to soldiers, attending rallies or even simply praying. I know first hand that soldiers appreciate those gestures, and we’d be a lot better off if we spent more time worrying about them than squabbling with others at home.
As for the comment about mascara, that’s just demeaning. I don’t even wear make-up. Nor am I rich by any means, I go to school and work to pay my bills. And I am certainly not a "shit eating lesbian" so could we keep out the irrelevant personal attacks?
PS
Oh and btw that website hasn’t been updated in over a year. And Chuck was in the Army for several years before being discharged and going back to school.
After reading many of these posts, it appears that so many of you are off the mark. Iraq is not necessarily a party issue. Although I am a Republican, I do NOT agree with the war in Iraq. As for voting for Bush, it was the choice of two evils....better the devil you know.
Telling all the right wingers to enlist is exactly like telling all the left wingers to go have an abortion (or telling their wife to have one). I know that all you left wingers believe in the right to have an abortion...so go have one. That's the same dumb logic you lefties use.
You can support parts of what your party does, not everything. I don't believe in abortion but identify generally with the conservative philosophies, so I'm a Republican. That doesn't mean I like Rush (can't stand him).
I think for myself and don't follow the rest of the flock, like so many do.
Just trying to clarify how tiring it is to read all the junk out there.
Asthma is PDQ (permanent disqualification) for all brances of the military. The only way an asthmatic can join the military is if he has obtained a waiver, which can only be gotten if he not shown asthma symptoms since age 13, and passes a PFT to show it no longer exists. What some of you are advocating (lie about having asthma) is a fraud and a serious crime. There is an informative thread about asthmatics and the military at Military.com:
http://forums.military.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/78192862/m/53000241713
College Republican here, supported the war, enlisted, and completed service. Quit f***ing whining!
You people are ignorant fools. Why don't YOU join the military if you know so much about it? Having just helped my son fight his way through a medical disqualification that nearly kept him out of ROTC, I know that you people babbling about how the army will take you if you have a pulse because of the "meatgrinder war" do not know what in the world you are talking about. Your desperation to do anything to malign those who have more honor and courage than you do is pathetic.
And Sara -- congratulations on your grace and dignity. Simply by being yourself, and greeting unfair, dishonest criticism with calm honesty, you have made the people here who thought they could score points by insulting you look like the pack of small-souled fools that they are. Even if you can't live out your dream of military service, it's clear that you will do good things for this world and for those you care about in the future.
alberich, if your friend was in ROTC in "high school," it must have been JROTC which is just for practice and involves no military obligation or commitment. ROTC for all of the branches is very highly selective at the college level, both academically and physically. Asthma is one of several absolute disqualifiers and there are many physical conditions for which waivers must be obtained. As for "consistency" -- If you don't talk in public about things you know nothing about, you won't look quite so ignorant in the future.
Some can't enlist. I have pretty moderate asthma, and no branch of the military accepts people, even if there's only a HISTORY of asthma. So regardless of whether I support the war or not, I have no option to serve. That being said, I do not support the war.. just saying..
Back in 1981, I tried to enlist in the Air Force. I took the ASFAB test and scored in the top 2%. After filling out the paperwork (honestly) I added that I had allergies and asthma as a child. The recruiter called me to say "don't bother taking the medical, you're not medically qualified" or something to that effect.
I begged and pleaded for weeks, but they would not even allow me to go to Milwaukee for the physical. That's no BS!
I'd like to know if the Air Force has any record of this rejection.
Oh, one more thing regard the previous post: I asked the recruiter what would happen if they enlisted the draft and he laughingly said "you'd be the first to go".
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