Wednesday, September 28, 2005

Talking points for trolls

Ever wonder why the same arguments keep coming up in the comments section? It's because the right wing has think tanks and organizations to distribute their talking points. This is from a group called Young America's Foundation.

Talking Points Against the "Chickenhawk" argument
So, the big argument from the Left in regards to the Iraq war is essentially: If you support the war, but do not sign up to serve yourself, you are a hypocrite and a "chichenhawk."

I am sure many of you may come across this on campus. To help counter this, we have put together the following talking points:

1. We are engaged in a war of ideas on college campuses that is essential to winning the war on terror. This is also very important since hateful professors are spewing anti-American rhetoric at the students every day and students rarely hear all sides of the argument.

2. The Vietnam war was lost because there weren't enough people on the homefront telling the truth and supporting the war...

3. Where were these leftists when Clinton was sending our troops to Kosovo, Somalia, and Haiti? They weren't signing up then. Also, why aren't they serving in various UN peacekeeping missions worldwide, according to their logic?

4. The troops in our programs tell us it is so important to continue the battle of ideas on campuses and to support the men overseas through programs like what we did with Freedom Alliance to send needed supplies and thank you notes over there during the conference.

5. We are the ones fighting for the right to serve in ROTC on campuses. The same leftists who criticize us for not joining the military are stripping willing and able college students at Yale, Harvard, Emory, Stanford, etc from their rights to serve their country.

6. The majority of Americans do not serve in the military, so the Left is essentially disenfranchising them from contributing their voice to the debate.

7. The logic is flawed that only people who are involved in something can voice an opinion about it. For example – the public voices its opinion about a wide range of government programs even though most people are not in the government, and people speak about welfare but not many are actually on it or administering it.


Link

15 Comments:

At 29 September, 2005 01:09, Blogger Amicus Curiae said...

1) Every ideological group has its talking points. YAF can't be faulted for that, and

2) You have to admit, these are some damn fine talking points in that they're, well, completely factual and thus true.

 
At 29 September, 2005 03:41, Blogger Karl said...

Yes, sharing talking points is part of the great American tradition of the free exchange of ideas.

And my college recently considered inviting ROTC back, but the aging sixties commie-pinkos on the faculty said No.

But the key question is very simple: Tomorrow, the Army is going to miss its annual recruiting quota for the first time since 1999, and we're in a serious war.

What kind of national leadership cannot motivate even its strongest supporters to consider serving in our nation's time of clear need?

-

 
At 29 September, 2005 06:13, Blogger The Riddler said...

I have to agree...the underlying point is this....you support a war you won't fight at a time the military needs you the most. How can you say you support the troops when you won't help replenish their thinning ranks? How can you possibly refute that?

 
At 29 September, 2005 08:20, Blogger POS said...

Dont forget:
8. The republican party is a party of pussies.
9. Fight!??!!?! In a war?!??!?!
10. Don't we have minorities for that?

 
At 29 September, 2005 10:09, Blogger Blogenfreude said...

The talking points are nonsense because they fail to take something important into account: this is a war started by the lies of Republicans/conservatices/neocons - Dems who voted for it feel duped. Vietnam was not such a war, nor were the others named. Before Bush voters started crossing over and opposing the war, the country was split on the war pretty much along party lines.

The College and Young Republicans are, well, Republicans. They continue offer stupid arguments as to why the Dear Leader was right to START the war, not just regarding why we have to tough it out. Thus, let them fight it. Nobody is preventing them from speaking, we are just suggesting that they put their life where their politics are. Make a stupid argument, a false argument - live with its results. They constantly make the point that it's a volunteer military. That's true, and it's all the more reason that those who think the war was and is a fool's errand should sit this one out. If a few of the grandchildren of Mr. and Mrs. Thurston Howell III died, you'd see how quickly the war would stop.

 
At 29 September, 2005 11:09, Blogger Andrew said...

Looking at the talking points I begin to realize that they are not talking about people really taking any kind of action. By action I mean physically going out and doing some of the things people are supporting or talking about. I'm a veteran and I know people didn't recieve anything from people back at home unless it was a relative or close friend. If you did send stuff thank you for the support. My main point is action, what is more important than you voicing your opinion which can be done overseas to some extent? Putting your money where your mouth is and actually support your troups by signing up which makes it so people don't have to go on consecutive tours. I've heard a lot of reasons but school or ideas should not be either of them. You can do both of those anywhere in the world and they will still be there when you come back. I as a veteran was deployed as a student and know full well that school and the ideas you argue about will still be there and most of them are timeless and will be there for as long as you can imagine so don't worry about missing out.

Sign up if you have the fortitude to follow through with what you believe in.

 
At 29 September, 2005 11:14, Blogger merlallen said...

Well, they are the party of chicken george bush, the man who ran away on 9/11.

 
At 29 September, 2005 15:33, Blogger fade said...

Amicus:
Every single one of those talking points ARE FALSE

1. Hateful Professors spewing Anti-American Rhetoric? We all know what is being spewed and what rhetoric is being ate up by the masses. And Hint- they arent listening to the Professors of America. Students rarely hear all sides of the argument? All you have to do is turn on Fox Media to have Right wing views pushed down your throat.
2.Viet Nam was lost, because like Iraq, it is Unwinnable. We are not there to Save the Iraqis. We are still fighting them AND bombing them. Nothing people say at home is going to WIN the war in Iraq.
3.A lot of Us leftists didnt support troops in Kosovo, Somalia, or HAITI. A lot of us feel that we should leave situations like that alone or they should be left to the UN.
4.Troops in our programs (Isnt this what yellow elephant is all about? How many Republican college students are troops? I am soooo glad they sent Thank you notes. Woo hoo.
5.ROTC is obviously the Key to winning the war in Iraq ?
6. The majority of americans dont want this war to continue, so the RIGHT is disenfranchising THEM, not us who are speaking out WITH the majority.
7. Andrew answered this one just fine for me.

 
At 29 September, 2005 16:06, Blogger A Witness to the Holstein Cow Experiments said...

"The Vietnam war was lost because there weren't enough people on the homefront telling the truth and supporting the war."

I wonder what the hell they think the "truth" about the Vietnam War was? That if we didn't fight it, the dominoes would fall and all of Asia would be communist in the matter of a few years, maybe?

Because that totally happened. Right after we pulled out. I remember it well.

Idiots.

 
At 29 September, 2005 16:30, Blogger Sadie Baker said...

"4. The troops in our programs tell us it is so important to continue the battle of ideas on campuses "

God I can't wait for the troops to come home and start whuppin on some pasty white chicken-hawk asses. Battle of ideas! Yeah I got your battle of ideas right here ...

 
At 29 September, 2005 17:08, Blogger zombieH said...

E.G. talking points

"This is also very important since hateful professors are spewing anti-American rhetoric at the students every day and students rarely hear all sides of the argument."

--ad hominem attack (e.g. "hateful professors") is the first verbal assualt that four year olds can understand.

"The Vietnam war was lost because there weren't enough people on the homefront telling the truth and supporting the war..."

--e.g. Nixon's "silent majority" shouldn't have been so quiet? This talking point is sublimely simplistic and pointless. The true point is that the U.S. is a free country with free expression and open exchange of ideas. The Johnson and Nixon administration weren't able to "sell" the war to the citizens. And these were citizens who were exposed to a draft, so the war effected everybody not just volunteers and their families. John Q. Citizen in Des Moines didn't take kindly to his son coming back in a body bag due to an the threat of a world-wide communist domino theory. And may I point out that this theory never came to pass even though the U.S. lost the war.

3. Where were these leftists when Clinton was sending our troops to Kosovo, Somalia, and Haiti? They weren't signing up then.

--Actually, leftists protested these actions too. There were peace rallys at the Federal Building in Los Angeles.

4. The troops in our programs tell us it is so important to continue the battle of ideas on campuses and to support the men overseas through programs like what we did with Freedom Alliance to send needed supplies and thank you notes over there during the conference.

--this is not a talking point. There's nothing to debate.

"We are the ones fighting for the right to serve in ROTC on campuses. The same leftists who criticize us for not joining the military are stripping willing and able college students at Yale, Harvard, Emory, Stanford, etc from their rights to serve their country."

--Actually, they're not. Young, able-bodied men and women can still sign up at their local army/navy/airforce recruiting stations.

"The majority of Americans do not serve in the military, so the Left is essentially disenfranchising them from contributing their voice to the debate."

--Definition of disenfranchise: "Deprive of right, privilege, or status." The left does not have the legal ability to deprive the "majority" of Americans to do, or not do, anything

"The logic is flawed that only people who are involved in something can voice an opinion about it."

--True. But half the fun is seeing how defensive people get.

best, zH

 
At 29 September, 2005 21:24, Blogger zombieH said...

(this time for real) A Bush family member enlists.

go to: http://zombieh.blogspot.com/2005/09/first-bush-family-member-enlists-in-us.html

 
At 03 October, 2005 12:02, Blogger Future Soldier said...

All I have to say is wow, all of you are every oppinionated. But its a good thing. I support the war by the way, if we dont fight it over there we will fight it over here.

 
At 04 October, 2005 19:51, Blogger "Radical" Russ said...

future soldier, why is it you think that terrorists can't multitask? We're fighting "them" over there, yet "they" still managed to blow up Bali, London, Madrid, and more.

Ask yourself some questions. Share with the audience, if you can:

1) Who is this "they" we are fighting?
2) Why are we fighting "them"?
3) Why are "they" fighting us?
4) How do we know when we have defeated "them"?

For example, take WWII. We were fighting the Nazi Axis Powers, a uniformed fighting force under the direction of Hitler, Tojo, and Mussolini. We were fighting them because they attacked our homeland and invaded our allies. They were fighting us because they sought to conquer Europe (Hitler) and Asia (Tojo). We know they were defeated when their leaders surrendered.

I'm interested in clear answers, because I don't seem to get any from the Shrub maladministration.

 
At 06 October, 2005 11:52, Blogger markg8 said...

I went over to Club 100 and entered a few stealth posts. Didn't write any yellow elephant stuff but sprinkled a few demoralizing comments about DeLay and Blunt in there. They actually have kids jumpinmg ship with posts like "Why I left the Republican Party".

 

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