Boston Globe Columnist Kevin Cullen joins Operation Yellow Elephant
Humbled at Walter Reed, by Kevin Cullen, Globe Columnist, published April 21, 2008.
In the rehabilitation unit at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, where every day is Patriots Day, there are nine "Rehab Rules" on the wall and the first commandment is: Share Your Story.
And so they do.
[ . . . ]
There are 160 inpatients at Walter Reed.
There are 700 outpatients, what they call the Warrior Transition Brigade, trying to get back to where they were before Iraq and Afghanistan. Captain Sarah Mitsch, a Weymouth [MA] girl, is an occupational therapist and works with amputees. She was in Iraq, as was Major Matt St. Laurent, a therapist from New Hampshire, and so they carry an unspoken bond with the wounded warriors they tend.
"Some guys, we start from scratch," St. Laurent said. "We've got young soldiers who can't dress themselves."
St. Laurent looked around.
"It's an honor to work with these guys," he said softly, almost to himself.
[ . . . ]
Coming face to face with the cost of war, it is easy to get angry.
Angry that so many honorable men and women will never be the same.
Angry that almost everybody in the White House and Congress who put these soldiers in a position to lose a limb or a chunk of their minds never had any intention of allowing their own flesh and blood to shed a drop overseas.
But anger isn't the emotion you feel walking around Walter Reed. Humility is a better word.
If you are not a soldier, if you don't love or know a soldier, you will never in a million years understand this, but many of the soldiers here would give anything to get back to their units.
Many have given an arm and a leg and they'd give the other one to get back.
[ . . . ]
posted by OYE @ 4/21/2008 07:11:00 PM
47 comments
47 Comments:
This is yet another dishonest argument. Those old enough to serve have their own free will. A parent cannot make his or her child join the military.
It's interesting that this dishonest argue was never used when Clinton launched a preemptive attack on Iraq and an illegal war of choice on Kosovo. No one suggested that Chelsea Clinton enlist. Of course, other than the children of members of his administration, such as Max Blumenthal, no one could really ask the children of members of Congress to enlist. That's because Clinton, unlike the Bushes, never sought congressional approval to deploy our troops.
Talk to the hand Groenhagen, I'm gonna ask Wek to ban you from yet another board.
Groenhagen why do you persit in dishonest arguments Chelseas was in fact called to enlist on this site several months ago?
Why have you ignored 90% of my questions posed to you?
Why do you think those who do not serve but support the Governments War are more honorable than those who have "seen the elephant" and are against continued occupation?
Why?
He's coming for ya rj3000
grung:
"Groenhagen why do you persit in dishonest arguments Chelseas was in fact called to enlist on this site several months ago?"
There's that reading comprehension problem again. "Several months ago" was not when Clinton launched his preemptive attack on Iraq and his illegal war of choice on Kosovo. No one at that time argued that Chelsea should enlist to fight her father's wars.
rj3000:
"Talk to the hand Groenhagen, I'm gonna ask Wek to ban you from yet another board."
So you're going to ask Wek, who never served a day in uniform, to ban a Marine Corps veteran from this blog because you cannot counter my arguments?
Wow, how courageous and manly of you.
Cpl Groenhagen why do you continue to lie about yourself. 21 years after serving a single hitch you continue to call yourself Cpl. Groenhagen, USMC
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/14383
BTW, this site did not exist during Clinton's wrong war, therefore it could not call on Chelsea to enlist. Also Chelsea was 16 with the illegal war on Kosovo began.
Why do you continue to ignore my points on calling Clinton on her warmongering?
Why do you take talking points from Sea Hannity who was against openended war in Bosnia, but wants America to stay forever in Iraq?
YOUR credibility is in question.
As a former NCO who was a patient for 13 months at Walter Reed (lost both legs above knee by an IED in 2005), I find this article to be right on the money. He points out the overwhelming positive attitude that's present by Soldiers and Marines. I do not regret my service and STILL believe in the cause in which I was tasked to do.
The managing of the war has been handled in a less than desirable way, but that doesn't take away from the positive things that have been accomplished.
I am a political conservative (not neo-con though)and am a McCain supporter. The problem I have is one that this blog helps point out. The only ones who are affected by the war are the military and their families. This is the first major war in recent history that has been fought without a draft.
Through courage, selflessness, and sense of duty, most Military Personnel do not complain about multiple deployments...but it's time for able-bodied young men (and women) to step-up and truly support the troops by taking on some of the fighting load themselves.
grung:
"Cpl Groenhagen why do you continue to lie about yourself. 21 years after serving a single hitch you continue to call yourself Cpl. Groenhagen, USMC"
I have clearly noted here several times that I served from 1982-1986, so there is no lie on my part.
"BTW, this site did not exist during Clinton's wrong war, therefore it could not call on Chelsea to enlist."
I was not referring to just this site. I was referring to those of your ideological persuasion in general.
"Also Chelsea was 16 with the illegal war on Kosovo began."
You know, I research things before I comment here. I wish you Green Baboons would do the same. Chelsea was born on February 27, 1980. She was over 18 when both Operation Desert Fox (Iraq) and Operation Allied Force (Kosovo) took place. I would think that someone who claims to have served during those years would have known that.
"Why do you take talking points from Sea Hannity who was against openended war in Bosnia, but wants America to stay forever in Iraq?"
I haven't used any Sean Hannity talking points here. In fact, I don't believe I have even mentioned Bosnia.
"YOUR credibility is in question."
Funny, I was thinking the same about you. Your latest post only gives me furhter doubts.
Groenhagen you clearly have gone onto other sites and lied (by inference ) you were an actie duty member of the Corps.
Ive even included a Link--> http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/14383
So you are a liar.
I never claimed to have served during Kosovo, liar.
As for Chelsea's age, I'm not the one fixated on the Clinton's.
You are a liar sir.
Here is another link --> http://www.norwegianity.com/index.php?itemid=2156 (search for Groenhagen)
which clearly shows you are here to push some right wing idealogy and through inference implied you were a serving memebr of the Corps.
Again you are a liar.
groenhagen I don't believe you're a Marine. you are a proved liar.
Here's another link --> http://www.scienceblogs.com/evolutionblog/2007/08/the_rights_desperation_part_tw.php
Were the proven liar Kevin Groenhagen implies he is an active member of the Corps.
And he insults the blog's writer for lack of hair?
You are aliar sir.
grung:
"Groenhagen you clearly have gone onto other sites and lied (by inference ) you were an actie duty member of the Corps."
I haven't inferred anything like that. (BTW, Green Baboon, you infer from and imply to. It's basic English.)
"I never claimed to have served during Kosovo, liar."
Did you not say that you served during the late 1990s? I didn't say you served in Kosovo. I was referring to the timeframe.
"As for Chelsea's age, I'm not the one fixated on the Clinton's."
Translation: Groenhagen, you're right about Chelsea being 19 when her father launched war on Kosovo, but I lack the integrity to admit I was wrong when I said she was just 16. (BTW, you do not pluralize a word by adding an apostrophe "s")
"Here is another link --> http://www.norwegianity.com/index.php?itemid=2156 (search for Groenhagen)
which clearly shows you are here to push some right wing idealogy and through inference implied you were a serving memebr of the Corps."
It's "ideology," Green Baboon. I see you have adopted rj3000's ploy of searching the Internet for dirt on me instead of debating the issues here. It's a tacit admission that you have a weak and dishonest argument, isn't it? The web site you refer to actually got its information from Salon.com. I wouldn't put too much stock in it. It said that I ran for the Kansas State House of Representatives in the general election as a Republican. Actually, I ran in the primary as a Democrat. My name was not even on the ballot for the general. Of course, Salon.com is not known for its accuracy.
"groenhagen I don't believe you're a Marine. you are a proved liar."
"Proved liar"? Nice English, Green Baboon. Actually, I'm a former Marine. I suppose you Green Baboons could quiz me on my service. However, like Wek, I suspect most of you don't have enough knowledge about the Marines in particular, or the military in general, to conduct such a quiz.
grung:
"Were the proven liar Kevin Groenhagen implies he is an active member of the Corps."
I earned the right to be called a Marine, Green Baboon. I don't think someone who has not served in the military should call me a liar for that.
"And he insults the blog's writer for lack of hair?"
That's called responding in kind. The writer, attacked the manliness and courage of others who, like him, never served in the military. And note that he didn't answer my questions, which you Green Baboons seem to be incapable of addressing:
Did you approve of us going into Afghanistan after 9/11? If so, why didn't you enlist? Also, Clinton deployed our troops more than 40 times during his eight years. Did you oppose each and every one of those deployments? If not, why didn't you enlist?
Of course, it's easier for Green Baboons to try to dig up dirt on others than it is to address those questions.
Maybe you would like to share your actual name here, grung, so people can start looking for dirt on you. No? Didn't think so. It's much easier to throw rocks while you're hiding behind a tree. There's courage and manliness for you.
Yes Liar. You lied by inference. You post your name as Cpl Kevin Groenhagen, USMC allowing others to infer you are a Marine, instead of the truth you never served a day in your life.
No I said I took my physical in 1999. I served from 2000 - Nov 2005. Including places called Ramadi and Kabul...
You're right. I was absolutely wrong about Chelsea Clintons age and you were right.
As far as your knowledge of the Corps you're not going to impress me with canned facts you gleamed from the History Channel.
You're a liar. You never served. You post on this site to defend a war and occupation of which you have no knowledge about, to attack all things liberal and to defend Chicken Hawks.
Did I approve of going into Afghanistan? How about this question did you deploy to Afghanistan after 9/11?
You're a liar who's only mission is "retroactive impeachment" while you defend the cowards of the current administration who never had the courage of their later convictions.
You're posts are hardly worth the time. Do you think the Iraq war has made america safer?
Do you think it's worth the number of americans killed and wounded? When will Iraq became a bastion of freedom and democracy?
Here's a curve, when will the Kurdish people be given a nation of the own? Do you know anything about the situation in Iraq? Do you care? Or do you think posting attacks on the Green Baboons is the struggle God has ordained for you? You have to fight'em here so braver men than you can fight'em there?
grung:
You still don't understand the difference between infer and imply, do you? I guess you Green Baboons cannot be educated.
"As far as your knowledge of the Corps you're not going to impress me with canned facts you gleamed from the History Channel."
I don't believe my personal service and duty stations have ever been covered on the History Channel. Perhaps someone could ask me about the lay out of Camp Foster, Futenma MCAS (I was there both before and after MAG-36 was moved to the other side of the airfield), or even the old BC Street in Koza City. How about Team Spirit '83 in Yechon or Team Spirit '84 in Pohang.
You're a sad, little man grung. I can see why you are afraid to use your actual name.
Are you done playing games and ready to debate the issues?
grung:
"Did I approve of going into Afghanistan? How about this question did you deploy to Afghanistan after 9/11?"
You can't answer a question with a question.
"You're a liar who's only mission is "retroactive impeachment" while you defend the cowards of the current administration who never had the courage of their later convictions."
I've never brought up retroactive impeachment here. If my mission is to defend cowards, I would be defending you and your fellow Green Baboons.
"You're posts are hardly worth the time."
Translation: I cannot counter your posts with reasoned arguments so I'm going to say they're hardly worth the time. It's much easier for a man with my limited mental faculties to dismiss than defend.
"Do you think the Iraq war has made america safer?"
Another question, yet you have provided no answers to my questions.
"Do you think it's worth the number of americans killed and wounded?"
Yet another question. You answer mine first and then I'll get back to yours.
No Liar, I will not allow you to dictate the terms of this debate. I've already posted several times I did not enlist after 9/11. And do you know why? Because I was already serving.
You sir are a liar. I will not answer your right wing questions to only see you respond with insults and more right wing questions.
You are here on this site to push you insane right wing belief system which defends Warmongering Cowards and Chicken Hawks and a occupation of which you know nothing.
You call me coward. Fine I am a coward. You are a liar. You figure out which of the two is worse.
Can we please be more respectful towards each other?
Afghanistan was a war of retribution and Iraq was a war of choice. The first one was more justified and the second is less so. Seeing that when we had ample manpower and resources before we went into Afghanistan I cannot see why some say that Chelsea Clinton needed to enlist right after 9/11.
Iraq is a different matter. Many experts in and out of the military called for far more troops (I being one of them) then we were sending to that nation. Then - Army Chief of Staff Gen. Eric Shinseki was publicly humiliated by Donald Rumsfeld for suggesting we'd need several hundreds of thousands of troops for Iraq. He was right.
Now, the Army and the Marine Corps have had to lower their enlistment standards and even waive convicted felons
grung:
"You call me coward. Fine I am a coward. You are a liar. You figure out which of the two is worse."
From the evidence here, I'd have to conclude that you are either a cowardly liar or a lying coward.
icarus:
"Can we please be more respectful towards each other?"
Are you kidding? The raison d'etre of this blog is to question the manliness and courage of others. Given that, how can you expect anyone associated with this blog to be anything but disrespectful?
If you want a rspectful dialogue, I urge you to join me in calling on this blog to end its practive of attacking those who have not served in the military. The attacks are quite hypocritical when Wek himself admits he never served a day in uniform.
This blog only calls into question those who advocate war without having served in uniform. There's a difference.
groenhagen, I willing to overlook the message of this blog and just argue respectfully one way or the other. You can seriously disagree without being disagreeable.
icarus:
"Afghanistan was a war of retribution and Iraq was a war of choice. The first one was more justified and the second is less so. Seeing that when we had ample manpower and resources before we went into Afghanistan I cannot see why some say that Chelsea Clinton needed to enlist right after 9/11."
What was Kovoso? It was that war (as well as Clinton's preemptive attack on Iraq) that I referred to in regards to Chelsea Clinton. If you read books about the military during the 1990s ("While America Sleeps: Self-Delusion, Military Weakness, and the Threat to Peace Today" is a good one), it is clear that we did not have ample manpower and resources at that time.
Kosovo was different from Iraq and Aghanistan altogether. Kosovo was an international effort at peacekeeping and humanitarianism and it wasn't to combat terrorism. We didn't even have casualties in Kosovo...at least none from direct combat.
icarus:
"This blog only calls into question those who advocate war without having served in uniform. There's a difference."
No, the difference is the particular war. You and I both know that millions of young men and women who advocated war with the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan did not enlist in the military. In addition, FDR failed to serve in the military during World War I although he was a supporter of that war. Yet this blog has never questioned their courage. That's what makes this blog's argument dishonest and inconsistent.
"groenhagen, I willing to overlook the message of this blog and just argue respectfully one way or the other."
That's a bit like visiting a porn site and overlooking the nudity. If the purpose of this blog is to be disrespectful towards others, you cannot expect the arguments to be respectful.
Yeah and even war has its rules...which is like trying to reason with an inmate at an insane asylum. So?
WW I, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq...these conflicts and military missions are all different from each other in nuanced ways. Let's get over the cosmetic similarities and differences, shall we?
icarus:
"Kosovo was different from Iraq and Aghanistan altogether. Kosovo was an international effort at peacekeeping and humanitarianism and it wasn't to combat terrorism. We didn't even have casualties in Kosovo...at least none from direct combat."
You Green Baboons have "but, but" arguments for everything, don't you. Kosovo was still a war and people did die in that war (including quite a few Chinese). Okay, we'll call it a peacekeeping action and not a war. Would that euphemism work for you? That action still entailed the deployment of our troops. Why wasn't Chelsea asked to enlist to take part in that action?
I think you Green Baboons would be better off if you just admitted that you're partisans who are using this issue to attack Republicans. You have no interest in past conflicts, nor would you enlist to take part in a future conflict that you support. All you care about is political advantage today.
Really? This blog is not partisan. They have criticized both Liberals and Conservatives, Republicans and Democrats.
And it seems to me that you're the one who refuses to even entertain someone else's point of view but for a moment.
But before I close, let me just say that I bear no grudge. Semper Fi.
USMC 2001-2005
icarus:
"Really? This blog is not partisan. They have criticized both Liberals and Conservatives, Republicans and Democrats."
I guess you are unaware of what the elephant in "Yellow Elephant" is. The elephant is the symbol of the GOP.
That's because Republicans generally happen to be the strongest supporters of the Iraq Conflict.
Believe me, once you get past the name of the blog you'll notice that OYE has criticized people of all political stripes and affiliations.
icarus:
You know what they say about excuses, don't you?
Yeah, I do. It's a cliche.
icarus:
Yes, but, like most cliches, that one has a basis in reality. Your claim that the Green Baboons are not partisans does not pass the smell test.
Well, I can't speak for the OYE, come to think of it I don't speak for anybody but myself so I will say this. As a veteran of Iraq I think there have been many mistakes made in the execution of the war. As a Marine I have sworn to uphold the Constitution and so naturally when I hear some people on the Republican or pro-war side accusing the anti-war crowd of cowardice or treachery I get a little defensive about people especially like OYE. So while I don't think the OYE argument is air-tight I still appreciate viewpoints like these.
Groenhagen...it's a good thing you got out on disability. If you had to work for a living, your boss would be annoyed at all of the time you spend doing blog responses during work hours
anonymous:
The boss has no problem. My work hours are very flexible. But thank you for your concern.
Groenhagen claims everyone here is too partisan ,except for himself.
LMAO
It appears we have a comedic genius in our midst. Either that or he's a complete loony
Instead of being a thoroughly unconvincing right wing tool Groenhagen you should opt for a career in show-biz.
Really, he's a lot funnier than Stephan Colbert
you all really keep the trolls fat and happy at OYE.
icarus [22 April, 2008 14:17]
A slight clarification is due here.
This blog has no opinion about the views of people who are ineligible (or too old) to serve. Anyone in America can support or oppose anything they want. This blog hasn't taken a position on any conflict.
All we ask is that those eligible to serve who support the war find it in themselves to consider serving, and that those not personally eligible urge their eligible relatives and friends, their circles of influence, to Be A Man! Enlist!
oye:
Why don't you drop 100 pounds and enlist? Be a Man! Your medical excuse is a joke.
Endless repeating of Powerline banality,
Surely a sign of a toady mentality
Groenhagen, please do the world a favor and remove your sorry ass from the gene pool. You are obviously too far gone with your hatred of all things 'liberal'.
Be done with it asshole.
Holy shit Groenhagen, why do you persist in spewing your rightarded vomit over sooo many message boards??
Like Wall said, DO THE WORLD A FAVOR AND REMOVE YOURSELF FROM THE GENE POOL YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE.
Jeff Wall and Kevin Simms: I hope you two have made peace with your demons.
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