Has Andrew Sullivan joined Operation Yellow Elephant?
In its entirety:
Begging Foreigners to Fight for Us
Is that really what Michael O'Hanlon's best argument is?
OYE Comment:
We've heard this from Michael O'Hanlon before. If our national civilian political leadership cannot persuade real Americans [to include legal immigrants] to volunteer for military service in support of its stated national objectives, then that leadership should reconsider those objectives.
That is, if they choose not to set a good example for the rest of us by encouraging their own relatives and friends, their circles of influence [e.g., major campaign contributors] to volunteer for service themselves (if eligible), or encourage their own eligible circles of influence to Be A Man! Enlist!
Right, Henry Hager?
posted by OYE @ 4/14/2008 07:01:00 PM
35 comments
35 Comments:
"If our national civilian political leadership cannot persuade real Americans [to include legal immigrants] to volunteer for military service in support of its stated national objectives, then that leadership should reconsider those objectives."
Again, the moral cowards with OYE are ignoring the fact that all four branches of the military have been meeting or exceeding their recruitment and retention goals for quite some time. Therefore, it is a lie to say that real Americans are not being persuaded to enlist in the military.
http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=11826
Ignore groenhagen. He's just a little boy who wants some attention.
Anyway, the idea of making foreigners fight our war never made sense to me. If we can't muster up the courage to have our own citizens enlist, why should we expect the citizens of another country to do so?
robert hamer:
There's that reading comprehension problem again. Maybe you OYE types should organize a remedial reading class.
I just noted that all four branches of the military are meeting or exceeding their recruitment and retention goals. So you then repeated the lie that our own citizens are enlisting.
BTW, Robert, please share with us where you are currently serving. This is something the OYE types refuse to tell us.
"I just noted that all four branches of the military are meeting or exceeding their recruitment and retention goals. So you then repeated the lie that our own citizens are enlisting."
That should have been:
"I just noted that all four branches of the military are meeting or exceeding their recruitment and retention goals. So you then repeated the lie that our own citizens AREN'T enlisting."
Groenhagen I don't think it's evryones reading comprhension that's the problem.
I think it's your writing that sucks.
Yes, groenhagen, please organize your thoughts coherently before coming in here flame-baiting everyone and pimping your book. Oh, by the way, I'm currently in the Navy.
robash:
"Groenhagen I don't think it's evryones reading comprhension that's the problem."
You write that and then say this:
"I think it's your writing that sucks."
You're really a boob, robash.
robert:
"Yes, groenhagen, please organize your thoughts coherently..."
That's probably coming from someone with a GED. You definitely haven't been in a college classroom. That might explain why you OYE types are having your reading comprehension problems. You're poorly educated.
dont feed the troll.
anonymous:
My posts have been on topic. It seems your definition of troll is anyone you disagree with.
no feedy troll.
this is a different anonymous.
I think the point that OYE is trying to make is that unless you've served in the military, if you're a war supporter and you don't plan on joining the war on terror then you're somewhat of a coward.
I agree wholeheartedly. Groenhagen, you've already served your time in the Corps as have I and I commend you for it.
anon:
"I think the point that OYE is trying to make is that unless you've served in the military, if you're a war supporter and you don't plan on joining the war on terror then you're somewhat of a coward."
And I have said that is a cowardly and dishonest argument. And note that these OYE types refuse to tell us if they support our military efforts in Afghanistan. If they do but are not currently serving in the military, can't the same argument be used against them?
I was too old to re-enlist at the time of 9/11 Like all Americans I was outraged
At that time, I stonglgly supported hunting down and wiping out the responsible parties.
I trusted the President and his advisors to do the right thing for America and instead they acted in the most reckless irresposible, inept and self serving fashion.
I felt personally betrayed by them.
Ironically I'm not too old (for another month) now that they have raised the age limit.
However I have no intention of re-uping because I have utterly lost confidence in the civilian leadership I do not wish to put my life in the hands of people as inept and corrupt as Bush and Cheney.
As far as I'm concerned, thats not any more cowardly than refusing to get on a bus with a driver that I know is drunk.
Your lil sweetheart Leigh, however,has no such qualms he should get his ass down to the recruiter station ASAP
robash:
"I was too old to re-enlist at the time of 9/11 Like all Americans I was outraged."
I don't buy that excuse. If that's the case, you need to update your profile photo.
"I trusted the President and his advisors to do the right thing for America and instead they acted in the most reckless irresposible, inept and self serving fashion."
I guess you missed the fact that we went to Afghanistan 18 months before we went to Iraq.
"Ironically I'm not too old (for another month) now that they have raised the age limit."
Well, if you support our military action in Afghanistan, be a Man! Reenlist! If you don't, you forfeit the right to whine when I say you're objectively pro-terrorist.
"However I have no intention of re-uping because I have utterly lost confidence in the civilian leadership I do not wish to put my life in the hands of people as inept and corrupt as Bush and Cheney."
You're just full of excuses, aren't you?
"Your lil sweetheart Leigh, however,has no such qualms he should get his ass down to the recruiter station ASAP"
As I noted before, I saw your profile photo. If a picture speaks a 1,000 words, I'd say it says much about your sexual orientation, Liberace.
this is the recent anonymous
I don't really think there is anything wrong with OYE's stated mission. The war in Afghanistan is a war that a large majority of Americans still believe in. The war in Iraq is far different.
Many general and flag officers have said that the war in Iraq is straining our military in terms of resources and manpower. The war is forcing out Captains and mid-level NCOs and Staff NCOs. Resources that could have been used in Afghanistan are now being spent in Iraq. Meanwhile the Chinese military is building up its capabilities. Their submarine and carrier forces are growing.
Many young Republican acolytes have thrown around the coward label at the anti-war group and I for one would like for someone from that crowd to acknowledge that their efforts in "supporting the troops" is barely noticeable and far less worthy of the respect of their peers who are now in uniform.
The photo is a bit old but I haven't updated the photo in quite some time.
I haven't even thought about that profile for years.
IT would be sheer lunacy to volunteer for combat if one does not trust the leadership. perhaps sheer lunacy is a normal state of mind for you Groeney but I don't operate that way.
If the Yellow Elephants think Bush is such a great leader, let them go fight for him
Besides I've already done my part. I served my time and got my honorable discharge and you can kiss my red white and blue ass
The Bush people started doing crazy things like ignoring the Geneva Conventions and branding US citizens as "terrorists" and locking them up without any semblance of due process. While letting Osama get away at Tora Bora, Long before they invaded Iraq
Plus the Military didn't start having recruitment problems until after the Iraq invasion so they didn't raise the age limit until long after I was completely disillusioned.
Which military were you in Groenhagen?
You can't just pick and choose your assignments. You go where you are ordered to go.
So the "sign up to go to Afghanistan" is completely bogus.
As far as my sexual orientation, My wife could certainly vouch for my hetero-ness ,but theres no way she would ever give a obnoxious troll like you the time of day.
I'm sure you're used to that reaction from women..
Bad robash141! Stop feeding the Troll!
His basic post is:
Insult Insult Insult Coward Gay!
Ignore rebuttal. Label Coward!
Proclaim Greatness!
robash:
"Besides I've already done my part. I served my time and got my honorable discharge and you can kiss my red white and blue ass"
I seriously doubt that you ever served.
"The Bush people started doing crazy things like ignoring the Geneva Conventions and branding US citizens as "terrorists" and locking them up without any semblance of due process."
Nice Democrat talking points. Ever consider thinking for yourself?
"While letting Osama get away at Tora Bora, Long before they invaded Iraq."
We "let" Osama get away? Hey, if getting Osama were easy, tell us why Clinton failed to do so. After all, he had eight full years. Heck, Clinton couldn't even capture Eric Rudolph and he was in our own country. Clearly, Clinton was more interested in pursuing bad girls than he was in pursuing bad guys.
"Plus the Military didn't start having recruitment problems until after the Iraq invasion so they didn't raise the age limit until long after I was completely disillusioned."
Another excuse to explain away your cowardice.
"Which military were you in Groenhagen?
You can't just pick and choose your assignments. You go where you are ordered to go."
You wouldn't know that from the OYE types. Isn't their whole argument that those who support our military efforts in Iraq should sign up to go to Iraq? Actually, I had a little say in where I went because I did well in intel school.
"As far as my sexual orientation, My wife could certainly vouch for my hetero-ness ,but theres no way she would ever give a obnoxious troll like you the time of day."
Now by "wife," you actually mean a guy named Steve?
"I'm sure you're used to that reaction from women.."
Now by "women," you actually mean gay men?
You're a joke, Robash, as are all these other moral cowards with OYE.
Groenhagen makes the mistake of "doubting" that others have served.
I support the mission of OYE and I served. Want to put your money up, Groenhagen, you little slow thinker you?
It's just stupid of you to flout your doubts. Who cares what you doubt?
Put your money up, then people will listen to what you have to say. How about $300 against my DD214, moron?
libvet:
Was I talking to you? And I think you meant "flaunt." Yet, then again, I'm the "slow thinker" and "moron."
You OYE types are always good for a laugh.
I can see Grung's point about not feeding the trolls.
However, Groenhagen is such a disastrously inept advocate for his own position that he actually hurts the YE's by association.
It's fairly easy to bait him into writing ever more asinine things that will infuriate and alienate everyone except the most deluded Bush dead-ender.
Yes, bad as the Yellow Elephants may be, they are actually diminished even by associating with this guy.
Groenhagen,
Don't let these big meanies get to you; I admire your service to our great country.
You can be my wingman anytime!
robash:
You're still a joke. If you actually served, why didn't you take advantage of the educational benefits? If you had, you would not come off as being so ignorant and uneducated. I think that's your real problem with College Republicans. You're jealous of them.
Wrong again Groenhagen,
I graduated from a UC Which is more prestigious system than CSU ,of which your lil' toady Leigh is a student.
Why would I be jealous of a dude with less sack and less education?
Since people are being so picky about grammar around here..
In an earlier post from yesterday I meant to say "delusional Bush dead-enders" rather than "deluded Bush dead enders"
groenhagen, why the animosity? The criticisms on this group are not directed towards you but towards people who support the war from a safe distance.
icarus:
My so-called animosity is due to the fact that I believe the "Green Baboons" (i.e., OYE) have a dishonesty and cowardly argument. In every war this nation has fought, we have had millions of "people who support the war from a safe distance." And thank God for them. Without their support the morale of the troops would be much lower.
As I have noted numerous times here, FDR was of military age during World War I and he was a strong supporter of that war. Nevertheless, he did not enlist to fight that war. Yet you never hear any of the Green Baboons call the man who led this country during World War II a "chickenhawk."
The Green Baboons, unable to deal with the FDR issue, then post an item in which they say the scope of this blog does not include previous wars. Well, how convenient. Some of us believe that principles are timeless and that all of the past is relevant.
Frankly, if everyone who supported our efforts in Iraq joined the military to serve in Iraq, there would be more Americans in Iraq than Iraqis. That fact alone discredits the Green Baboons' argument.
robash:
"I graduated from a UC Which is more prestigious system than CSU ,of which your lil' toady Leigh is a student."
If I were to go by just this blog, CSU clearly does a better job of educating their students than UC does. It would be no contest.
If we were to just go by this blog Groenhagen, people would think you are a raving lunatic. I suspect that's what people who meet you in real life think as well.
robash:
Wow, spend all day on that retort, Einstein?
No, I did it on the fly.
My Real-life responsibilities often cut into my time to argue with morons such as yourself on the internet . Fun though it may be, I can't pick on you all the time.
You seem like a fellow with way too much leisure time on your hands.
robash:
"You seem like a fellow with way too much leisure time on your hands."
That is not the case. And, even if it were, that in no way gains credibility for your cowardly and dishonest argument, does it, Green Baboon?
Hey, I'm a veteran. After reading articles recently that said we are allowing a huge increase of felons into the military to meet our already lowered military recruiting goals, I have to say I'm disgusted.
The furthur fact that we are beggin foreigners to fight for us is even worse.
Then we got the fact that jobs that used to be done by the military: cooks, repair work, etc. are now phased out and being done by contractors for 6 - 9 times what it would have cost a soldier or sailor to do the same work is just a waste of taxpayer money.
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