A Special Thread
for groenhagen and anonymouse. Please continue your point-to-point conversation here, so that we can keep the regular comments threads on-topic.
Thank you for your cooperation.
posted by OYE @ 5/27/2008 05:55:00 PM
16 comments
16 Comments:
Gee, Kevy...I didn't know that anyone was paying attention to us. It looks like I've been able to give you the audience that you've been craving. Later on, I'll give you the details of the debate lesson for the day.
Anonymouse
Here's an idea. How about making it a requirement that everyone here use their real names (including OYE)? I guarantee that that would reduce the amount of nonsense offered by anonymous cowards.
Folks in Kansas call him "Groeney"
Lots of claims he makes are phony.
bends the truth like rigatoni
Logic circular, like pepperoni.
Head softer than melted spumoni
Excuses cheesier than macaroni
Served with thick slabs of baloney
More mendacious than Berlusconi
Forking to some right wing crony
Always full of sanctimony
In his dung heap, theres no pony.
"Lots of claims he makes are phony."
Cite just one.
The world,Groeney will misobserve
While libeling Vets without reserve
Defending slackers shows some nerve
When It's our country they disserve
When away from duty, they do swerve
With tired excuses lacking verve
Social Darwin the gospel they serve
Put us all on a regression curve
Their own asses they will preserve
To go loot the Federal Reserve.
"C-word" a label they don't deserve
WTF do they purport to "conserve"?
dogface:
I knew you couldn't. However, you did offer a few phony claims of your own, didn't you?
Groney with self righteous egotism
Is always eager to cause a schism
Shows Lisa such swinish chauvinism
Like a Taliban with his dogmatism
Phony Culture war, bogus populism
Accepts YE excuses with altruism
Attacks Vets with so much cynicism
Vision distorted by far right prism
Writing snotty emails isn't heroism
Only shows pathological narcissism
Like Hurricane Katrina absenteeism
or strutting cod piece triumphalism
Red head bastard son of Calvinism
Absolute waste of Daddy's jizzum
Kevy, Kevy, Kevy...Are you ready for your lesson for today?
Anonymouse
For those following at home, for future reference, I have developed a list of the common tactics used by right wing zealots, in particular, our good friend, Kevy. I am naming them in his honor. Please mix them, match them or trade them with your friends.
Groeney Class 1-Ad hominem attack
Groeney Class 2-Question ducking
Groeney Class 3-Strawman argument
Groeney Class 4-Right wing talking point
Groeney Class 5-Fabrication
Groeney Class 6-Attacking incorrect person
I am sure that, over time, I'll be able to add to the list. Please check for updates. Also feel free to make appropriate suggestions for additions.
Anonymouse
Based on party choice, his opinion will vary
He'll praise any Repug, no matter how scary
Everyone else, he just trys to bury
If she had told him that she voted for Kerry
Groeny would take a crap on the Virgin Mary
Any sane person had best be wary
Too much keyboarding his palms are hairy
A little barnyard bestial out on the Prarie.
Then He demands all the milk in the dairy
Cares nothing about a justice miscarry
He'll take away wishes like a bad fairy.
All GOP critics he attempts to parry.
Can't tell a wise nugget from a dingle berry.
Air mailed special from Vigueri.
Groeney Class 1-Ad hominem attack
Example: Anonymouse calling me "little fella"
Groeney Class 2-Question ducking
Example: Anonymouse refusing to prove that he has been published
Groeney Class 3-Strawman argument
Anonymouse claiming that I have attacked veterans here
Groeney Class 4-Right wing talking point
Anonymouse has yet to show where I have done so. However, he does parrot liberal talking points on this blog run by Young Democrats.
Groeney Class 5-Fabrication
Example: Anonymouse claiming that he is a speech and debate teacher and that he has been published.
Groeney Class 6-Attacking incorrect person
Since anonymouse is too cowardly to use his real name, how does one distinguish between him and the other cowards who post anonymously?
Kevy, Kevy, Kevy...someone seems a little cranky this afternoon. Did mommy let you go the whole afternoon without a nap?
Kevy...How is calling you "little fella" a personal attack? Just look at it as a term of endearment from a superior to an underling. You need to be a little less sensitive...
Anonymouse
Okay Kevy, here is your debate lesson for today. We'll call it "Controlling the Terms of the Debate." This will come in two parts: first, framing the structure of the debate and second, controlling the information which forms part of the debate.
The first effective means of controlling a debate is to establish an organized framework to the debate. This is best accomplished by establishing an outline of the issues to be argued. If done effectively, this helps the debater to: 1) make clear and concise arguments and 2) require his opponent to be reactive is the debate.
A good example of such a tactic is the Groeney list from earlier in this thread. It provided a listing of the typical "arguments" used by Kevy and his ilk to attempt to make a point. The descriptions are short and clear. The advantage is that the opponent was merely reactive to the points as opposed to making effective aruments of his own. In effect, he was submissive to the terms established earlier.
As an editorial comment, Kevy, it looks like you're learning a little. I'm glad to see that you've taken the first step in developing your argumentation skills and learned how to argue by analogy. Keep it up little fella and I'm sure you will develop into an adequate debater.
In a little bit, I'll instruct you on the second element of your lesson for today.
Anonymouse
The second element of "Controlling the Terms of the Debate" relates to the substance of information that is bantered back and forth as part of argumentation. This is a critical element of any debate. If a debater relies too much on personal credibility, introduces faulty logic or uses obviously-biased sources as part of any of his presentation, he will lose credibility in the eyes of any independent evaluators. A debater who is careless in providing too much information about himself or his argument also runs the risk of having that information turned on him.
An analysis of Kevy's arguments to date reveal that he has not been particularly attentive to these rules which would seem to be intuitive.
By way of example, lil Kevy has claimed to have been a rough and tough member of the USMC, going so far as to close his postings here, and elsewhere with "Cpl. Kevin Groenhagen, USMC." This would imply that he is an active member of that world-renowned service. His later concession that his alleged service was rendered over 20 years ago helps to undermine his credibility. Further, his complaints about name-calling further establish him to be an overly-sensitive individual and not the tough image he wants to present. This may not be surprising considering that he is essentially a sad individual who can find tragedy in any great moment.
we'll continue this lesson later in the day.
Anonymouse
You know Groenhagen, you are just about the biggest idiot I've seen on line. Good job dipshit!
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